Es regt sich international was

[Donk]

Hey zusammen

auch ihr sollt die Möglichkeit haben die Situation der RG65 international mit zu gestalten, darum hier eine Mail vom internationalen Commitee!
Ich habe Wayne bereits um 1 Woche Aufschub zu seiner Mail gebeten... Am Wochenende findet die JHV der DKVRCS statt, wo ich dieses Thema andiskutieren möchte.

Gerne gebt ein Feedback.


Dear RG65 World Council members

In 2022 when I assumed the chair of the RG65 ICA I pledged that I would be open and transparent with regards to the activities of the ICA committee and topics under discussion. I therefore need to bring the following to your attention, and I ask for your views on the topic.


Recently I was approached by the Chairman of the IRSA who wishes to open up a new round of discussions with the RG65 Class about affiliating the class to the IRSA.

You may all recall the previous time that this was discussed and the way it ended with a lot of bad feeling between the parties.

Your ICA committee have no strong views either way but there is some concern that the benefits of affiliation to the IRSA are somewhat limited, and there may be some additional costs incurred by the class, particularly when holding a World Champtionship.

My initial response to the IRSA was to explore some obvious questions, and I will now list these and the response from the IRSA. Our questions are shown in Italics with highlight and their response follows the question.



There has been a recent uptick in the use of the SHRS rather than HMS for the management of heats at big events. What is the IRSA view on this. Many IRSA documents referring to racing are structured around HMS currently

Costs: A significant cost for World Championship revolves around officials, their transportation, room, and board. For regattas that use promotion/relegation e.g. HMS, a denial of the right to appeal decisions is required. To allow this, WS requires an International Jury (that may be as few as 3 members).

For scoring systems such as SHRS that do not promote/relegate, skippers retain their right to appeal protest committee decisions and do not appear to require an International Jury. However, if you wish to run an event using a system of promotion/relegation such as HMS, the right of appeal must be suspended and if it is, an International Jury is required by WS.

WS RRS 70.3 70.4 70.5:
A protest committee may request confirmation or correction of its decision by the national authority.
There is no right to appeal decisions:
(a) (b) of an international jury properly constituted under Appendix N, that are essential to promptly determine the result of a race that will qualify a boat to compete in a later stage of an event or a subsequent event (and the national authority may prescribe that its approval is required for the use of this rule),
(c) made at an event open only to boats entered by
(1) an organization affiliated to the national authority, or a member of such an organization, or
(2) a personal member of the national authority, provided the national authority has granted its approval for the use of this rule, or
(d) made at an event by a protest committee constituted as required by Appendix N, except that only two members of the protest committee need be International Judges, and provided that the national authority has granted its approval to the use of this rule after consultation with World Sailing.
However, (b), (c) and (d) shall only apply if specified in the notice of race or sailing instructions.

WS RRS N1.7:
In exception to rules N1.1 and N1.2, World Sailing may in limited circumstances authorize an international jury consisting of a total of only three members. All members shall be International Judges. The members shall be from three different national authorities (two, in Groups M, N and Q). The authorization shall be stated in a letter of approval to the organizing authority and in the notice of race or sailing instructions, and the letter shall be posted on the official notice board.

All this to say that requirements for race officials and their associated costs for are not mandated by IRSA, and IRSA Classes can structure their regattas as they see fit, subject to oversight by the IRSA Classes Committee (which consists of a representative from each IRSA Class, the chairman of which is a voting member of the Executive Committee).

Approval: Fundamentally, IRSA approval of race documents and rule changes simply is to ensure that they comply with WS, IRSA, and that class’s governing documentation. Our role is not to pass judgement on documents properly prepared by the IRSA Classes.


It is our intention to follow the DF classes in how they manage and run their Global Championships without the need for teams of judges and umpires. Gordon Davies is well versed with this setup as he has been the sole Judge at 3 DF Global Championships, supporting the race team and heading the Protest Committee. This is very different from classes like the IOM, but in our experience works fine. Please can you confirm that this approach would be acceptable to the IRSA should the class hold international events sanctioned by the IRSA.


International Events: The structure of your regattas is up to you. I know that Gordon is a champion of SHRS to decrease Judging requirements and their associated costs as well as increasing the pace and decreasing the complexity of scoring and we have no issues with IRSA Classes choosing to use SHRS.

IRSA does not specify what type of scoring system to be used. Because of the “rights of appeal” issue, SHRS seems to make regattas less expensive because of the reduced requirement for judges.



We are told that the annual fee for affiliation to IRSA would initially be $0. We understand that the DNMs pay a modest fee annually, and that IRSA raises funds from World/Continental event participation. Can you give any assurances that there are no plans to levy significant fees on the ICAs in the future. The IRSA regulations categorise DNMs onto 6 categories, but I cannot see where ICA’s fit into this model.

Fees: IRSA’s budget basically covers the cost of our website.
In the past, IRSA collected minimal funds from each DNM and a per/boat fee from World Championship regattas, but our present Executive Committee decided to eliminate this source of funding since it was unfairly burdening the IRSA Classes.

We now fund ourselves by assessing subscription fees to each DNM and IRSA Class when our bank balance falls below a certain threshold. We have not levied a subscription fee during our present administration but when we do so, the fee for IRSA Classes is 106.70 GBP/year. Once we make such a levy, that should be sufficient funds for several years, based on current budget forecasts.


Should the RG65 Class join the IRSA and then, as some point in the future, the IRSA make a change to one or more of their policies that's not acceptable to the RG class, please describe how the class may cancel the memorandum and what the ongoing implications may be.

Exit Arrangements: per the Memorandum of Understanding section 8
8 TERMINATION
8.1 This Memorandum may be terminated by either of the parties at any time upon giving the other party at least one year’s notice in writing, or immediately upon notice of breach or insolvency.
8.2 If requested to do so by WS, either party may terminate this Memorandum immediately.
8.3 The Memorandum shall continue in force so long as the International XXX Class boat maintains IRSA designation as an IRSA Class.




The RG65 Class rules were re-written in 2021, based broadly on the IRSA 65 Class rules, but without any reference to WS, ERS or RRS. This was to allow the class rules to continue to be used by nations who do not sail under the WS umbrella. Please can you confirm if these rules have been reviewed by the IRSA and if they are acceptable in their current form. (https://rg65.org/class-rules/).

RG Class Rules: look good to me at first glance, although they do not contain a prohibition for materials denser than lead.



The RG65 class currently operates under a Self Certification policy, but requires a Class Measurer to ratify the measurement certificate for boats taking place at National level events and above. Is this acceptable to the IRSA, bearing in mind clauses within various IRSA documents referring to the need for International Measures at World/Continental events.

Measurement: If the class certifies its measurers and specifies when their skills are required, is acceptable. You know better how to measure your class’s equipment than IRSA does! You may want a high standard of measurers for any technical inspections at regatta check-in for a ‘World or Continental Championship’ event.


We have a number of nations affiliated to the ICA via a National Class Secretary as they do not have a NCA affiliated to their DNM/MNA. Would IRSA recognise these NCS groups and allow them to host international events and also count towards the requirements for designation (IRSA Regulations 9.18)

Regulation 9.1.8: could you please clarify you concerns about NCS/NCA/DNM/MNA designations and the ability to host international events? IRSA does not specify how an ICA organizes its members, but it is best if your members are either a MNA (or delegated to a DNM) or COA/NCA where no NMA/DNM exists, and if a DNM uses a Class Secretary as its focal point in place of a COA/NCA.


Bearing in mind that the RG65 is set up to include nations who do not fall under WS governance, what is IRSA's current stance on the participation at World/Continental events of people who are/have been active in events not sanctioned by WS, either as people from those nations or class skippers who have visited those nations to participate in a local event. As the class who evoked the previous aggressive action by the IRSA on this topic I am sure you will understand our concern.

WS v Naviga: per WS Eligibility Code 2.1 Competitors in World/Continental events:
In addition to Competition Eligibility, a competitor has ‘World Sailing Eligibility’ if he
meets the following conditions:

(a) he is a member of his/her Member National Authority or one of its affiliated organizations. Such membership to be established by the competitor either:
(i) by being entered by a national authority of the country of which the competitor is a national or ordinarily a resident; or
(ii) by presenting a valid membership card or certificate, or other satisfactory evidence of identity and membership.
(b) he is registered as an ‘World Sailing Sailor’ on the World Sailing Website for those events listed under Regulations 3.1(a) to (c),
2.2 In exceptional circumstances the Board may waive the requirements contained in Regulations 2.1.(a) and (b) for a sailor who, for good reason, is unable to comply with those requirements.

I think that invoking WS Eligibility Code 2.2 would cover skippers not affiliated with a WS designated organization if warranted.

In your opinion, what benefits are there to the RG65 Class if they decide to affiliate with the IRSA

Benefits:
1. Coordination with other Radiosailing classes with regards to scheduling, nationalities of convenience, eligibility, etc.
2. Sharing of ideas, experience, and concerns with other Radiosailing classes.
3. Input into Appendix E.
4. Strength in numbers when it comes to interactions with WS (as per our successful repeal of the Croatian motions to fundamentally change Appendix E last year).
5. Coalescence of Radiosailing under a unified banner.

What is the current view of the IRSA regarding the previous discussions and resulting outcomes.

I understand that a prior IRSA Executive Committee took aggressive action towards the RG65 class which is one of the reasons they were voted out of office. The present EC had pledged not to follow in their footsteps.



I know that there is a lot to digest here and so I appreciate all the time that you can give to understand what has already been discussed. I also have confirmation from the IRSA that you may, if you wish, forward this to the RG65 stakeholders in your country to gather their views.

If possible please can you try to give me some indication of how you would like us to proceed by 1 May 2025.

We, your ICA Committee, would welcome your views on the topic. The Class belongs to all the stakeholders and so we need to ensure that whatever decision is made is to the benefit of all of us.

It is also our opinion that, unless there is a strong desire by the World Council to affiliate with the IRSA, we will end the discussions with the IRSA and continue to operate the class as it is today.

Thanks you again for your time and consideration on this.

[A-55]

Die letzte grosse Abstimmung hatte bereits das Thema und die Meinung der Mehrheit war auch klar.

Warum das Thema jetzt aufgreifen, wo kein nationaler Verband einen offiziellen Antrag gestellt hat?

SG Udo